Quite affordable CFLs...

[BobTrips]

Costco (mine, at least) has 8 packs of "60 watt" CFLs for $2.89.

That's 36 cents per bulb.

Cheap, cheap, cheap....

PG&E rebate is included in the price.

[JB]

What's the rebate worth though? No such rebates like that in my state....in fact utility rebates and incentives are illegal here.

I can't remember how much the last 3 pack of 100 watt CFLs I bought was....I didn't consider it to be unreasonable though.

But, as I mentioned in the carbon tax thread, I'm not 100% satisfied with them.

[Alex]

Yeah, I think those are the ones that I got a while back here in CT, they are a bit over $3 with a rebate from CL&P. They are pretty good, at least the Philips ones I got. I think we got three packs or something. Up to 84 CFLs here, or something like that.

[JiltedCitizen]

The ones I have don't give off enough light. It's weird because I've been using CFL's for my fishtanks for YEARS. Way before they became common. They were always bright...The house ones not so much.

[ryaske]

Hello!

You guys should be looking at the lumens rating of these bulbs to tell brightness. Equivelent-Watts or real Watts can be misleading!

also, are you all worried about the mercury inside of CFL bulbs? This is one reason we have not pursued CFL's for addition to our catalog. They are considered TOXIC WASTE and can be very harmful if broken!

[Alex]

LED lights are not really available yet, so CFLs are the only option. They are about the same brightness as an incandescent, but they something have a different light color, so they may take some time getting used to. If you need more light, get one size bigger, you will still have 65% over insacdescents.

[JiltedCitizen]

They are not the same brightness. Also they tend to try and get them around 4000k color. I prefer 6000k or there a bouts. Too yellow for me.

[BobTrips]

1. Rebate.

The rebate is 'pre-paid' by the utility company. One pays $2.89 for 8 CFLs at the check stand.

2. "Watts"

My understanding is that the bulbs are rated based on lumens. Watts are stated because it's a commonly understood measurement. The CFL that I just bought has a "23w=100w" statement in the upper right hand corner of the package with a CFL/incadescent statement directly below.

According to a Wikipedia entry a 100 watt incadescent produces 1700 lumens. The "23=100" bulb in front of me produces 1650 lumens.

3. Color balance.

If you don't like "yellow" bulbs get one with a different color balance. They're out there. My local hardware has various choices. I just bought a "warm white".

4. Mercury.

Mercury and CFLs

Mercury is a toxic metal associated with contamination of water, fish, and food supplies, and can lead to adverse health affects. A CFL bulb generally contains less than 4 mg of mercury (about one-fifth of that found in the average watch battery, and less than 1/100th of the mercury found in an amalgam dental filling). A power plant will emit 10mg of mercury to produce the electricity to run an incandescent bulb compared to only 2.4mg of mercury to run a CFL for the same time. The net benefit of using the more energy efficient lamp is positive, and this is especially true if the mercury in the fluorescent lamp is kept out of the waste stream when the lamp expires.

All fluorescent lamps do not contain the same amount of mercury. Philips lamps with Alto Lamp Technology, for instance, contain less mercury than conventional fluorescent lamps. Philips claims the bulbs have the lowest amount of mercury of any bulb on the market at less than 3.8 mg per bulb, or about 70% less mercury than other bulbs. To achieve this, Philips uses a specially developed mercury capsule which ensures the exact amount of mercury is placed in a tiny glass capsule which is attached to the lamp cathode. To purchase the new 'Alto' CFLs, click here.

Important Note: Handling and Disposal of CFLs

The mercury in compact fluorescent bulbsposes no threat while in the bulb, but if you break one be careful not to inhale the mercury - immediately use a wet rag to clean it up and put all of the pieces, and the rag, into a plastic bag.

Although household CFL bulbs may legally be disposed of with regular trash (in the US), they are categorized as household hazardous waste. As long as the waste is sent to a modern municipal landfill, the hazard to the environment is limited. However, CFLs should not be sent to an incinerator, which would disperse the mercury into the atmosphere.

The best solution is to save spent CFLs for a community household hazardous waste collection, which would then send the bulbs to facilities capable of treating, recovering or recycling them. For more information on CFL disposal or recycling, you can contact your local municipality.

http://www.eartheasy.com/live_energyeff_lighting.htm

[JB]

1. Rebate.

The rebate is 'pre-paid' by the utility company. One pays $2.89 for 8 CFLs at the check stand.

Well, I figured that, but I was curious as to what the actual rebate came out to be. Someone picks up the tab for that rebate, and it's the ratepayers on that utility.

2. "Watts"

My understanding is that the bulbs are rated based on lumens. Watts are stated because it's a commonly understood measurement. The CFL that I just bought has a "23w=100w" statement in the upper right hand corner of the package with a CFL/incadescent statement directly below.

According to a Wikipedia entry a 100 watt incadescent produces 1700 lumens. The "23=100" bulb in front of me produces 1650 lumens.

Correct. Lumens is light output, but with incandescent, people are used to buying according to the wattage, so the bulbs are marketed to appeal to that buying pattern.

4. Mercury.

Mercury and CFLs

Mercury is a toxic metal associated with contamination of water, fish, and food supplies, and can lead to adverse health affects. A CFL bulb generally contains less than 4 mg of mercury (about one-fifth of that found in the average watch battery, and less than 1/100th of the mercury found in an amalgam dental filling). A power plant will emit 10mg of mercury to produce the electricity to run an incandescent bulb compared to only 2.4mg of mercury to run a CFL for the same time. The net benefit of using the more energy efficient lamp is positive, and this is especially true if the mercury in the fluorescent lamp is kept out of the waste stream when the lamp expires.

All fluorescent lamps do not contain the same amount of mercury. Philips lamps with Alto Lamp Technology, for instance, contain less mercury than conventional fluorescent lamps. Philips claims the bulbs have the lowest amount of mercury of any bulb on the market at less than 3.8 mg per bulb, or about 70% less mercury than other bulbs. To achieve this, Philips uses a specially developed mercury capsule which ensures the exact amount of mercury is placed in a tiny glass capsule which is attached to the lamp cathode. To purchase the new 'Alto' CFLs, click here.

Important Note: Handling and Disposal of CFLs

The mercury in compact fluorescent bulbsposes no threat while in the bulb, but if you break one be careful not to inhale the mercury - immediately use a wet rag to clean it up and put all of the pieces, and the rag, into a plastic bag.

Although household CFL bulbs may legally be disposed of with regular trash (in the US), they are categorized as household hazardous waste. As long as the waste is sent to a modern municipal landfill, the hazard to the environment is limited. However, CFLs should not be sent to an incinerator, which would disperse the mercury into the atmosphere.

The best solution is to save spent CFLs for a community household hazardous waste collection, which would then send the bulbs to facilities capable of treating, recovering or recycling them. For more information on CFL disposal or recycling, you can contact your local municipality.

http://www.eartheasy.com/live_energyeff_lighting.htm

[/quote]

It's always something. I don't think it's possible to have ZERO impact on the environment.

[rhapsodyinglue]

Well, I figured that, but I was curious as to what the actual rebate came out to be. Someone picks up the tab for that rebate, and it's the ratepayers on that utility.

Sort of yes, but...

It may be cheaper overall to support subsidies for CFL to avoid having to build new generation capabilities. CA peak is summer cooling related, so CFL's not only reduce by avoiding wasted electricity directly at the bulb but also reduced cooling demand... thus reduced peak loading.

As to how much of this overall savings (assuming it's a net savings) flows to rate payers vs how much flows to enhanced profits for the utility, that often has to do with how they are regulated.

[JB]

Well, I figured that, but I was curious as to what the actual rebate came out to be. Someone picks up the tab for that rebate, and it's the ratepayers on that utility.

Sort of yes, but...

It may be cheaper overall to support subsidies for CFL to avoid having to build new generation capabilities. CA peak is summer cooling related, so CFL's not only reduce by avoiding wasted electricity directly at the bulb but also reduced cooling demand... thus reduced peak loading.

As to how much of this overall savings (assuming it's a net savings) flows to rate payers vs how much flows to enhanced profits for the utility, that often has to do with how they are regulated.

That's a good point.

But if most people used these CFLs like I use mine, it wouldn't have any effect on the peak power usage. I don't even turn lights on until it's just too dark to see, and that's going to be well after peak generation time.

Are people seriously lighting their homes during the day? I mean, it's not like my place has any sort of passive solar design for daylighting....in fact, my blinds are shut most of the time.

[rhapsodyinglue]

But if most people used these CFLs like I use mine, it wouldn't have any effect on the peak power usage. I don't even turn lights on until it's just too dark to see, and that's going to be well after peak generation time.

Are people seriously lighting their homes during the day? I mean, it's not like my place has any sort of passive solar design for daylighting....in fact, my blinds are shut most of the time.

Which are also good points.

In an ideal world (where's that you ask?)... Utility regulations are structured so that there is some profit incentive for each utility to figure out which efficiency measures are most effective in their area and to offer appropriate incentives or subsidies to encourage them. Also in an ideal world, rate payers would end up paying less, or at least no more. OK... don't laugh that hard... in some places things are moving in this direction.

Then as external costs of fossil fuels are internalized into the energy mix, more efficiency measures become the economically reasonable thing to do.

[MoonGlue]

My main concern with CFL's is after a decade of discarded bulbs are we going to have repercussions such as mercury contamination? groundwater, plants, livestock ect.

[James]

Note that the amount of mercury released by improper disposal is less than what would be released by an incandescent over its (the CFLs) lifetime by a coal fired power plant.

I really don't see people's problems with the light quality. I have CFLs in all rooms except 1 (halogens on a dimmer) and find the light to be good quality.

I too have wondered about peak load, especially if things done late at night could be considered low impact, if the coal or nuclear (most of NJ) is already being made. It would be interesting for someone to look into this.

[KevyWevy]

What's the rebate worth though? No such rebates like that in my state....in fact utility rebates and incentives are illegal here.

why is that?

here in the seattle area, the utility also offers prepaid rebates (coupons found at the CFL shelf).
my friends and i were discussing this the other day. we came to the conclusion that they provide the rebates because the energy that is produced here in washington (mostly hydro) can be sold to california for more than it can be to its customers in state. this seemed the logical explanation to us, but don't actually know.

ps. i don't notice much of a difference between the incandecents and the CFL's in my house.