buy a new car or keep my old one?

[BAF]

So REDUCE, reuse, recycle.

I have a 1996 nissan minivan, 21 mpg, paid off, runs great. I drive about 10,000 miles a year, so that's roughly 475 gallons of gas per year, and about $1750 a year spent on gas (at $3.60 a gallon).I know that economically it is better to hold on to my old car...if I doubled my gas milage I save about 800$, which is a lot less than a new car payment.

But what about the environmental impact of an older car? If I want to REDUCE, I won't dump a working car just for something shiny and new. I can also REDUCE by walking/biking etc when possible. But in terms of driving,is my carbon impact bigger if I buy a new car (impact of manufacturing, etc) or bigger if I drive my older car (less mpg).

Looking at todays market, my pocket book, and my family's needs, we would replace this van with a Honda Fit (33/38mpg). I really need a hatchback, prefer 4 doors, and am not seeing a hybrid that would suit our family at this time. Another bonus of holding on to my new car, is allowing the market to make some more advances in hybrids, and maybe even an electric car?? I live in Eastern Washington, near the Columbia River dams, with lots of cheap hydroelectric power.

So, I appreciate anyone's advice. Hold on to the old car, or switch to the Honda Fit...what is best for the environment? THANKS!

[agraham999]

Perhaps do what we did.

We want a hybrid or whatever, but we're not happy with what's available. We test drove the Prius for a week and didn't like it, plus, we don't want to pay lip service to hybrids by buying something that gets "somewhat" better gas mileage, yet has the Hybrid logo on it. So we wanted to wait, but we needed a new vehicle.

Instead of buying new, we leased a 2007 VW Jetta Wolfsburg for 3 years. It gets 22 in the city and 30 on the highway and we mostly do highway driving. Plus it gives us a new car, but in 3 years we'll likely have more hybrid options available to us...at which point we just walk away from the lease and buy a new car. And who knows...we've been happy with the lease so we might just do another one.

As for recycle...someone will buy your car and it will get used for many years to come. Cars eventually find their way into salvage yards where the parts are sold off and used again and again.

I think when you look at the difference in the Honda in MPG versus your current vehicle, you are not only helping the earth with better gas mileage, but you are also helping your pocketbook. Someone is going to buy the Honda...might as well be you, but if you lease it, you can set yourself up for an early exit into a better choice right around the corner.

[eugene]

There is additional cost in hanging on to another car.
Insurance is one, some companies count per driver while others count per car.
Also remember you also need to keep up with fliud and filter changes so average that out per month and add it in, even if your not driving some of those still need done.
Lastly vehicles that sit and become once or twice a month use tend to deteroriate faster that ones that are driven every day. Your brake rotors will get thick layers of surface rust, tires will dry rot, etc.

[Geonz]

Welp, how much *can* you reduce? Every mile you don't drive *at all* makes a bigger difference. The car lasts longer, even.

A used higher-mileage vehicle would be an option, too.

[inkabinkaboo182]

As a general rule of thumb, I like to say that after 10 years a machine will use enough energy to equal the amount generated during manufacturing. I came to that by one the forum's users basic analysis (it was Wai in a forum about whether jcoffman should get a new hybrid), and it's very imperfect, but sustainability usually isn't an exact science for most people.

So at this point, whatever you want to do is fine. If you sell it and get a new car that's better for the environment, that's fine.

But think of this - if you sell it it will still be on the road, but another additional car will also be on the road.

[Jackalope]

Im getting a vespa whoo hoo!

[agraham999]

Well an additional car may be on the road but I am sure another car in that chain goes off the road. We sold our Audi last month. We bought it 5 years ago as a lease car, it was a year old at the time. Someone now will drive it likely 2-3 more years and maybe sell it or it could be wrecked....but eventually it goes off the road into salvage. The person who bought it had rolled and totaled their car...so one car on and one car off.

The thing is that cars aren't made to order...so buying a new one already produced just takes one off the lot that someone else would buy anyway.

[mikebeavis]

Since you live near a green electricity source, an EV conversion may be worth considering. A DIY conversion can run about $12,000 to $16,000 in parts, not including the donor car. Paying someone to convert it will run you anywhere from $15,000 to $30,000. This is about in-line with a "new" car purchase. If you drive less than 40 miles in an average day, a converted EV could work for you. You may decide to trade your van for the donor car or have the EV as an extra vehicle with the van kept for long trips, etc. If your van is a manual transmission, it may even serve as the donor vehicle - almost all conversions are manual-transmissions (though, they say there isn't nearly as much shifting post-conversion).

The best donor car is one that has a good transmission, a good body, and a blown engine. These also happen to be fairly inexpensive as few people are willing to pay much for a car whose engine doesn't work. You can talk to local used-car lots and let them know you're in the market. There are kits for certain vehicles like Chevy S-10 or the "Voltsrabbit" kit. Finding a garage that does conversions isn't always easy, but here's a good place to start inquiring.

I'm not sure why a Prius wouldn't fit your needs, it's a 4-door hatchback after all and that's what you're looking for.

[WDW]

From one article I read, 2010 or 2011 is the time to buy new if you want some green options. Several electrics are coming out and the next prius which might get up to 80mpg(hopefully in real life). Hold on to your van, and wait till you can find something you really want that fits your lifestyle. A car is a big investment, its not something to rush into.

[ltorrance]

I drive (as little as possible) a Ford Focus ZX3 (~27-33mpg) 2 door hatch back with nothing fancy, no electric windows or locks. I desperately want a four door hatch back (I have dogs) with all the bells and whistles, and now that I can afford it I looked into it. But same as you, I couldn't find a car I liked enough; the Prius has a very slanted back window and would bake the dogs in the summer. In the end, I decided to hold onto the car for 3-5 years longer because I believe that with gas prices and awareness rising more energy efficient cars will be available in 5 years. Good luck making your decision.

[Geonz]

Both my hybrids get extremely good mileage... a Giant and a Trek, respectively. Get one of those while you're thinking (costs a lot less than the kind with four wheels)!

[jcoffman]

What is the state of the engine in your minivan? What I mean is how much oil does it burn? How much oil etc does it leak? These are huge factors in environmental damage as well. 21 MPG is not horrible. I only see the Fit rated at 28/34 MPG.

[jake3988]

Sadly, for america 21mpg is pretty good.

The next-gen Prius is coming out in '09 and its target is to get 80mpg. Buy that

[BAF]

This has been a great group of responses.

My van still runs great...doesn't burn any oil, no major repairs needed.
I think I might do some more upgrades on my 15 year old bike, and hold off a few years on a new car. That new prius (or any of the hybrids that might have a plug-in option) sounds great. I think an EV could manage 80% of all my driving.

By the way, the manual transmission Honda Fit is rated at 33/38, the automatic is less.

Thanks again everyone for great feedback.

[Geonz]

www.2milechallenge.com - here's a start