Weekend Project: Cat Vent

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Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby agraham999 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:18 pm

A few days ago I saw this great idea some guy named Chris had for venting litter box fumes out of the house with a bathroom fan (calling it a cat jet). Brilliant considering how no matter how often I clean the box, the smell makes the garage unbearable, especially in summer. So this weekend I stepped that up a notch by using my home automation system and a motion detector to automate the process using timed events.

And ta da!

Alan's Automated Cat Jet

Image

Within 5 minutes of the cat using the box, the fan vents for about 10 minutes. However, to combat the ammonia smell build up, the computer also vents the box for a few minutes every hour. Now, what I'd like to do next, mikebeavis (our resident solar expert), is have you help me come up with a way to run this off solar. Forget automation, I'd rather it ran for free 24/7. So what am I gonna need to pull this off? The fan is 120V and .9 amps.

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BTW...it really works. The smell is practically gone...in fact I'd say is was almost imperceptible...but let's see when it hits 90º today.

So Kitty...turns out you can stay.

Image
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby mikebeavis on Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:44 pm

You have got to be kidding me.

Just this weekend I was discussing a project like this with my wife. The cat box is smelling up the room that our baby will inhabit, when it comes. That is unacceptable. We used to have it in the hall, but then the smell wafted downstairs to annoy us and guests. Also unacceptable.

So I had the idea of doing almost exactly what you've done, Alan, and rigging it with solar power. I don't see any reason it couldn't be pulled off. Amazing, what kind of crazy coincidence is that?!?!

Ok, back to the question at hand. 120V x .9 amps is 108 watts. Since you're working in AC, figure in another 10% for conversion losses through an inverter. So roughly 120 watts of power to run this thing via solar/battery configuration. If it was my project, I'm not sure I'd want to do it 24/7 for no real reason, but you didn't ask for that opinion. 120 watts x 24 hours is 2,880 watt-hours or 2.88 kiloWatt-hours (kWh). You know what, you really don't want to know what that's going to cost you in solar power to do that, for nothing better than removing cat-smell.

So I'd say you want to take one of the two following paths. I'll be happy to help you walk either (or both).
1) Use a less powerful fan which you could afford to power all day long, like a computer-fan that draws 5 watts or less (preferably in 12V so there's no conversion losses), or
2) Run the thing intermittently. How often do you really need to refresh the 2-cubic-foot space that is a catbox? I'd think maybe 3 minutes in an hour's time would be plenty. If you did that, you could bring your power needs down by a factor of 30 (96 watt-hours) and it might be reasonable to talk about solar power.

Just to give you a reference, Alan, my whole solar system doesn't provide 2.88 kWh in a day, and if it did, I can think of better uses for it than cat-box-air-mover.

By the way, what did you do (if anything) to keep the outside air from coming into the house through the dryer hose, or was it just assumed that wouldn't happen because of the pressure from the fan?
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby mikebeavis on Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:52 pm

Here's an 80mm computer fan running on 12V that costs $3 and uses 1.56 Watts. You could run three of these and stay under 5 Watts.

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... FAN/1.html

3 x 1.56 Watts x 24 hours = 112 Watt-hours. You could easily get enough power from a 30-Watt panel to do that. Depending on your location and sun-hours, you might even get by with a 20-Watt panel.

BP 20-Watt panel: $185 (mrsolar.com price)
BP 30-Watt panel: $248 (mrsolar.com price)

If you tried to run that fan you have now 24/7 you'd need at least 500 Watts worth of panels (about $2500). I just don't see the point.
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby agraham999 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:55 pm

Well it doesn't have to run 24/7...just during the day I think would be fine. I'm cautious about using a less powerful fan in that I want to make sure it is powerful enough to vent. Perhaps in this case just managing when it comes on/off might be best.

Let me throw the fan on the kill-a-watt for a bit...

But I like your idea of limiting its use to certain times for just a few minutes at a time,.

As for air coming through, the bathroom vent kit has a flap on the outside...that's why the fan needs to be at least powerful enough to lift that up when venting. I'll post a photo of the other side of the vent...but this looks kinda like this on the outside:

Image

Anyway...maybe we'll look at adjusting the fan or using a DC fan to do this.
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby agraham999 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:05 pm

Kill-a-watt says .62A and 42W...

I could likely cycle down the speed of the fan using a rheostat...and I could shorten up the length of the tube to improve fan performance. The question is can a DC computer fan provide enough draw to vent it properly...I have some DC fans lying around I could possibly test with.

I think if I can come up with some intelligent power management with my home automation, it may work best off the home AC power. I need to experiment a bit on how often I need to vent to get the best performance.
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby tigerlily78 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:09 pm

I have three cats, and think this is AWESOME!

Their litter box is currently residing in one of our bathrooms, but with the box on the floor and the bathroom fan in the ceiling, it hardly keeps the smell from wafting out into the rest of the house.

I was thinking of installing a catdoor in the bathroom door, and keeping it SHUT. But maybe rigging a fan to carry the "funk" up to the bath fan would be a better idea.
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby Stickyfrog on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:25 pm

envirolet has a fan that may fit this purpose although it seems a little pricey. http://www.envirolet.com/enturfan.html but it can give you an idea of how to install a computer fan.
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby mikebeavis on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:25 pm

That's a good point about the flap.

In that case I think you'd probably do best to run it intermittently.

At 42W that's far less power required. Add the 10% factor and you're still only talking 46-47 Watts. Likely it needs a bit more to start up (the 108W it's rated at, I'd guess) but that's only a momentary spike until it gets up to speed.

Let's say you decided to run it at 5 minutes per hour. 42W x (5/60) x 24 hours = 84 Watt-hours. Now you can easily get that kind of production with a 20-Watt panel that gets 5 hours' sun as a daily average. If you had less than that where you're going to place the panel, a 30-Watt would be appropriate.

Since you're operating this thing rain or shine you'll need to oversize the battery a bit. That gives you leeway if you have 3 or 4 days without sun to replenish the energy you've used. Remember you don't often want to drain the battery past 30-40% or you'll shorten its life. 84 Watt-hours x 3 days would be 252 Watt-hours, and doubling that would be about 500 Watt-hours. That would allow you to go 3 days without sun and only drain the battery to 50% at that point. A 500 Watt-hour battery translates to about a 40 or 42 amp-hour (ah) battery.

Mrsolar has MK/Deka brand solar-appropriate batteries (good stuff) and they have a 32.5ah for $77 and a 55ah for $142. You might be able to find something else closer to you (batteries cost a lot to ship due to weight) but I'd caution against getting the cheap Chinese imports, from personal experience, I say pay the little bit extra for quality US-made brands. They're ok for experimentation but not so good if you want something that'll hold up over time. And don't get anything if it isn't made for solar applications. You'll want to build some sort of enclosure for the battery so kitty (or wifey) doesn't touch the terminals accidentally, and you may want to keep it next to a heated wall since batteries' performance will degrade if kept in hot or cold conditions.

Last major piece of that system would be a charge controller. Its main function would be to keep the battery from getting overcharged (in which case it can explode) but it also will give you a place to connect all your wires. I've had good experiences with the Morningstar SunSaver line. Pay the extra $10 and get the low-voltage disconnect (LVD) feature if you get one of these. Since at most you're using 1 amp for the fan, you can go with their smallest, the 6-amp model.
http://www.mrsolar.com/page/MSOS/PROD/m ... d429ce3728

Then you just need an inverter capable of handling 150 Watts, which shouldn't cost you more than maybe $25 at most.
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby agraham999 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:37 pm

The current smell factor makes cost no option.

You can build this system minus the home automation aspect for about $28...however add this puppy:

Image

...and you can put a timer on it so it will go on and off at different times throughout the day. You could also add a motion detector to the timer.

I put the litter box out in the garage and then put a cat door between the garage and the kitchen...through the door. The put the vent out the wall. The cat goes out...does his business...and now...the smell is under control. My wife was just doing laundry and she left the door open...and before you could never do that without killing us all.
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby agraham999 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:40 pm

tigerlily78 wrote:I have three cats, and think this is AWESOME!

Their litter box is currently residing in one of our bathrooms, but with the box on the floor and the bathroom fan in the ceiling, it hardly keeps the smell from wafting out into the rest of the house.

I was thinking of installing a catdoor in the bathroom door, and keeping it SHUT. But maybe rigging a fan to carry the "funk" up to the bath fan would be a better idea.


Do you have a garage?

The only problem having the litter box in the garage was it took the cat two days to figure out the door...it was a process of pushing him through the cat door. Eventually we'd push him out the door and leaving him there to figure it out...but the real power of training him was that we feed him out there as well...so he had incentive to figure it out.
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby agraham999 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:45 pm

I ran the fan for an hour...and it didn't even register on the kill-a-watt as far as costing anything...so we could go solar, but it may not be necessary it I run it for short periods throughout the day...but I'm still willing to test a smaller low power fan.
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby agraham999 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:00 pm

BTW...added a new programming feature that say essentially:

"If you detect motion and the fan is running already...turn it off first"

So as not to upset the cat's delicate sensibilities.
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby mikebeavis on Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:04 pm

The simplest solution would be an on/off switch, a couple computer fans, and a manual vent/flap opener (a pencil might do). With that you could get by with a fairly cheap panel. If you really wanted to go low-tech you could skip the battery and just let the fan run when it was sunny.

Somehow, I don't see Alan as the "low tech" sort :)
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby agraham999 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:09 pm

mikebeavis wrote:Somehow, I don't see Alan as the "low tech" sort :)


I'm sure I have no idea what you are talking about.

:wink:
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Re: Weekend Project: Cat Vent

Postby tigerlily78 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:03 pm

Alan,
We have a garage, but between all the boxes we have saved (moving again in a few years) and having to put the car in the garage periodically on account of hail and high winds... it is more trouble than its worth to let the cats have access to the garage.

We have 2 and a half baths, so the cat box (2 of them actually) occupies the half bath we don't really need.
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