Fair Trade versus Free Trade versus Bartering ...

[ib-creative360]

... I am hearing a lot more controversy about 'Fair Trade' ... versus Free Trade and also some Barter Projects they set up here... hmmmmm

what's your take on all this??

Happy Sunday everyone
Iris

[tigerlily78]

To me they are three different things entirely, though of course they may at times be able to co-exist or overlap.

Fair-trade simply means the people working at each level of the production of a product are paid a fair wage. In many cases all the workers are treated as part owners of the company, rather than just cogs in a system of exploitation by outside forces. Since the farmers and workers have a vested interest in the success and sustainability of their operation, they are more likely to adhere to practices that protect both the quality of their crops and the long term sustainability of their farming practices. No one is looking to "get rich quick", but rather to create a reliable source of revenue.

Free-trade is (in my opinion) an invention of the free-market libertarian free-for-all. In theory it is supposed to result in a system whereby all good and services are freely bought and sold freely by all interested parties without any superficial government influences (such as subsidies and tariffs). This is supposed to result in a true system where supply and demand directly determine price and availability of resources. Of course I don't think any modern nation has successfully developed this model of Free-Trade. Instead we have regional and continental "Free-Trade Agreements" which typically only serve to ensure that certain protectionist trade relationships continue on into the future.

Barter projects have always intrigued me and I wish I had more opportunity to take advantage of them. I think as a society we have gotten away from the idea that most everyone in society DOES have something of value to offer. I might need what is a relatively simple bike repair, but I may lack the tools or knowledge to do it myself. Why not hire the job out to a student who works at a bike shop and in exchange give them something they need... like a couple of home cooked meals?

I think the one major hang up a lot of people have with bartering is that there has to be some level of trust. It is hard to give up the idea of just doing things the "normal way" and instead taking a chance on the kindness of strangers. You have to be open to taking some amount of risk, because like it or not there will always be some jerks out there trying to take advantage of the system and get more out of it than they give.

[AnEducatedForester]

Barter's greatest limitation is the apples to oranges comparison of goods and services traded. How many bicycle repairs equal one home-cooked meal? And the second problem is quality of goods and services rendered, obviously as in any business, some trial period of trade has to be established so both sides know what "bicycle repair" and "home-cooked meal" is expected to entail, and thus an agreement can be struck on standard values. Sooner or later if you keep doing this, you realize a central common gold/cash standard is the easiest, quickest way to establish these equivocal costs. Sooner or later, someone decides to actually trade gold or cash for goods/services instead of goods/services themselves...then everyone gets hooked on gold/cash instead...and the world gets confusing and convoluted real quick.

Fair trade to me, seems the most promising, but also the most difficult to implement. Try finding a Banker who is willing to accept the same pay/hour as a factory worker. Try finding a factory worker here who is willing to accept the same pay as someone in rural china.

Bartering and free trade are easy...but messy and convoluted and full of deceit and fraud...no wonder capitalists love it.

[SgtMaj]

I think the one major hang up a lot of people have with bartering is that there has to be some level of trust. It is hard to give up the idea of just doing things the "normal way" and instead taking a chance on the kindness of strangers. You have to be open to taking some amount of risk, because like it or not there will always be some jerks out there trying to take advantage of the system and get more out of it than they give.

How is that different than any other arrangement? Whether you pay in cash, or in home cooked meals, it's all really the same thing, and of course there will always be people trying to get more out than they put in (capitalism).

[SgtMaj]

Bartering and free trade are easy...but messy and convoluted and full of deceit and fraud...no wonder capitalists love it.

There's nothing inherently wrong with capitalism. Many of us here engage in capitalism without thinking twice about it. While Marx said that few people in capitalist economies are actually capitalists, that was before the rise of the stock market. If you have any stocks, even in a 401K, you're a capitalist to at least the degree that you're invested.

[AnEducatedForester]

There's nothing inherently wrong with capitalism. Many of us here engage in capitalism without thinking twice about it. While Marx said that few people in capitalist economies are actually capitalists, that was before the rise of the stock market. If you have any stocks, even in a 401K, you're a capitalist to at least the degree that you're invested.

I would agree with you in principle, the problem is that in practice...at least in this country...real losses are socialized to the public while real profits are hidden and capitalized for the individual. The capitalist system as it now stands caters to the rich and craps on the poor, everyday. This is the main reason I want to spit in the face of anyone who gripes about welfare programs for the poor...they don't even come close to the "welfare" programs the rich use every stinking day to keep their cozy greedy little lives going smooth and easy. No man should be allowed to sit on a pile of money and not work...period.

The idea of capitalism may be as natural as evolution...but the inequitable practice of it in real life spoils its virtues.